It turns out that Dianne Odell HAD been baptized, in her family's bathtub, when she was 13 years old. She was taken out of her iron lung just long enough to accomplish it, against her doctor's recommendation. It's something that she very much wanted to do and thankfully, she got to do it.
My contention remains unchanged, as well as my question to Robertson, Oldfield and Fields: If someone is incapable of being baptized, does that mean that they are not saved?
How can a physical act possibly be connected to the salvation of one's soul? Is this not adding a "work" to the already finished work that Jesus did when He went to die for us?
Well, now Robertson is threatening to bring up how "wrong" I was on baptism on his show What Does the Bible Say? (which if truth in advertising laws prevailed should be renamed "What Does Johnny Robertson Say?") airing on WGSR Star 39 tonight. Robertson is apparently determined to make hay of this, and will no doubt gleefully point out that the lady in question was baptized. And Robertson spent almost three hours on my blog yesterday (I've got the records to prove it), looking for "dirt" no doubt.
Here are some of the remarks that Johnny Robertson has made in the past 24 hours...
Happy hunting obe oneAnd you don't think people know already where to find this blog, Johnny?
you will have to try harder than this
are you still going to call in?
If not Corey will get you (he lied Corey)are you all still searching for some instance where a person cannot be baptized?
it must be really tough on you all to be proved WRONG all the time.
I tell you this is fast becoming my favorite site.
Chris you are the best
our youtube going out to praise Diane (since you brought her up) is a great shout out to how the Devil really is stupid.
Diane was the # one google name yesterday. How well do you think you question being read on my show will do?
It may get you in the New York times again as the most unkind person alive.God’s word will be upheld.
Did yu think we would take a hit from the likes of Chris Knight when we teach the glorious gospel of the King.
You are hurting the causechris are you still calling in and debating on Sunday nite?
or did your little plan back fireyou reject the counsel of God when you refuse to be baptized and if you die
having done this all your days
then dont expect mercy as “rejecter”
I do say this with malice.
but it is the truthChris
you may won’t to go back and reread your comments
it was much stronger than this
and when I show it on TV it will be in quotesOh what has changed?
You don’t have a an emotional story to try and use to subvert people into taking your position?
Ok I am moving on. There is no truth here today.
Nice try Chris
I am still posting you tomorrow night.
Your comments are good to show how desperate folks are to defeat us.Chris
not so fast New Yorker (Chris),
I m not going to publish your blog boyee
just your latest blunder
Your attitude points all the way back to my original question from March: How is what you are doing giving glory to Christ?
Here is when I called into his show to ask him that, folks...
This is why what Robertson, Oldfield and Fields are doing is so terribly wrong, folks: they are using Jesus Christ as an excuse for how they like to swagger and bully people.
Johnny Robertson, I said that if you didn't respond with an answer to my question, that I was going to call in and ask. Lo and behold, you did respond. You have made it very clear that you believe that a person who is not baptized, is going to Hell.
So there was going to be no need for me to call in tonight anyway. You responded, and I'm content with that. Are you going to use that on your show tonight as well? Because that is all that I said that I wanted: an answer from you about this. And you provided one, whether you realize it or not.
But if you want a debate, Johnny... then yeah, I'm up for one. It's not going to be stilted in your favor though. We're not going to have your finger hovering over the "mute" button as it is all the time whenever someone calls into your show. You're going to have to face the fire as much as I would be facing it also.
So yeah: I'm challenging you to a real debate, live on WGSR Star 39, with a moderator. If you want to use the footage from it however you like afterward, it won't bother me at all if you do.
Let's have a real discussion on your demand for legalism, weighed against the simple sufficiency of the grace of God.
As we are told in Romans 3:22-28...
"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.You would impose a law on us, Johnny Robertson. A law that is not mandated at all in scripture."Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law."
And nothing you are doing, is giving glory to God. Which is what is supposed to be the primary motivation for us as followers of Christ.
I'm as yet undecided as to what I'm going to do this evening, folks. I might watch this show, and I might not. If I just watch it, I'll probably be in a giggle-fit of laughter the entire time. If I'm feeling pokey, I might do some live blogging about it. There are some possibilities that enter my mind. We'll just have to wait and see.
Robertson's own words condemn him.
ReplyDelete"I do say this with malice."
Everything the man says is with malice! He's admitted it now. Johnny Robertson is no man of God.
Chris:
ReplyDeleteSomebody needs to ask Johnny and James and Norm about where in the Bible does it say that a person unbaptized is lost.
We should pool our money and offer them five thousand dollars if they can show us a verse that says a person not baptized is going to hell.
Jesus did not say that baptism was needed to be saved.
They will argue that Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
But Jesus still did not say that baptism is NEEDED to be saved or that the unbaptized would go to hell.
Don't you think that if baptism was needed to not go to hell that Jesus would have said so? If he forgot to say it then either it is not needed or he forgot and so he was not God in the first place.
Jesus did not say that baptism is needed to save a person from hell. So then baptism is not needed at all.
No one else in the New Testament said that baptism is required to be saved.
Johnny Robertson does not know what he is talking about.
I will be watching his show tonight to see if he can tell us why baptism is needed for salvation.
He won't answer because he will be too busy trying to knock you down. But people will come to your website and will find the truth.
God bless you,
Steve
Are those his words? Someone who spells that bad cannot be right in the head.
ReplyDeleteChris you shouldn't pick on people who are mentally handicapped.
ReplyDeleteWow, that's disgusting. He's a perfect example of what is wrong with Christianity today, and has been wrong with it since the beginning. People like Robertson (who are granted too "handicapped" to spell correctly :) who use the grace of God to belittle people make me sick. Now, I'm not really religious in any sense of the word, but I do have a healthy respect for the ideals of Christianity. Ideals that include forgiveness and the ability to see the good in all people.
ReplyDeleteOr, as Georg Lichtenberg said far better than I could ever, "There were honest people long before there were Christians and there are, God be praised, still honest people where there are no Christians. It could therefore easily be possible that people are Christians because true Christianity corresponds to what they would have been even if Christianity did not exist."
These are ideals to which, apparently, roberston has blinded himself. Using God as a tool through which you pass judgement on others is not the way to earn yourself a spot in Heaven I would think... especially considering God condemns the passing of judgement on others by any except himself. Robertson might do well to take a look at those parts of the Bible too.
Ghandi told us, "If Christians would really live according to the teachings of Christ, as found in the Bible, all of India would be Christian today." I think you can expand that and say the whole world. But then there are people like robertson, with his strictly un-Christian preachings, that cause the rest of the world to run away.
I hope he does decide to debate you. I would be very interested in seeing him attempt to justify his lack of true faith without a mute button.
He says, "Your comments are good to show how desperate folks are to defeat us." I'm sorry, but last time I checked, true Christianity is not a war. Jesus talks about acceptance and forgiveness, not war and judgement.
"I do say this with malice." Malice is also not something Jesus preaches. He is never malicious, even when being beaten and crucified. So, what is it that robertson thinks he is trying to accomplish with remarks like that? Certainly, even in his fervor, he can't think that to be a very Christian thought....
"but it is the truth" Perhaps the lesson that robertson should take away from this ordeal, however it might shake down, is this: when dealing with matters related to God, it's presumptuous and absurd to claim to know the truth. There is nobody on earth that knows the entire truth. Including robertson.
Keep up the good work, Chris.
Today we spent the day praying for Johnny, Norm, and James. It was a challenge, as I was really trying to pray for their well-being, and not that they would change. At the end of the day, I felt comfortable with that, because I don't change anyone - only God does.
ReplyDeleteMy biggest concern is that JR and his "friends" have earnest folks who come and listen to them each week at the churches where they teach. Given, they don't have that many, but they are working really hard to change that. The mental picture I get is people willingly walking into a detention center. Free bonds! Free bonds! Get 'em while they last!
If they want to worship sans musical instruments, that's fine. If they want to take the Lord's Supper weekly, that's fine. But, the things that JR and company take them to (especially JR)... teaching them that to love their neighbor is to attack their neighbor (check out their "ambush videos"); teaching them that God is this big ticked off God who is wandering the hills and valleys looking for reasons to annihilate us (if you don't do this, if you don't do that, you are lost or apostate); etc.
May they (and we) truly understand what Jesus meant when he said, "Ye shall know the TRUTH and the TRUTH shall make you FREE" - John 8:3
Blessings,
Nathan
answeringchurchofchrist.wordpress.com
Being rather busy on a foreign mission field since Dec. 1985, I had never heard of this Robertson character until I found your blog through Verve this morning. Well, obviously the man has "lost " it somewhere. He really needs to use spellcheck before sending off his email replies. He also is a very malicious sort of fellow, isn´t he!? Not very Christ-like in attitude or spirit. As to the question of baptism......being a Baptist by choice....I wonder how the repentent thief ended up among the saved if Robertson is correct. Apparently he didn´t have the opportunity for baptism before he died.
ReplyDeleteI´ve enjoyed reading through your posts and will be visiting again. Blessings to you and yours from Costa Rica.
Kathie